Libranet Future?

[fos]

I have been using Libranet for some time. I have found it to be the best Debian based Linux/Gnu system available. More to the point, for my purposes, it has been and continues to be the best operating system available.

However, since the passing of Libra's founder earlier this year, the company has been in limbo. A recent posting on Tal's web blog leaves little hope in the near term.

I wish him the best. Tal is a gifted programmer. I am sure the future is bright for him in whichever direction he chooses to take.

This forum is available for Libranet / Debian discussion. It is my intent to keep this an open forum. I do not intend to solicit nor accept any advertising. It is strictly for Open Source use.

fos...

[viator]

Yes i read the blog posting i was rather upset about it. I figured he would have atleast posted to the forum.
Anyway thanks for setting up this forum 8)

[fos]

I hope to make it a useful reference. My time is very llimited while I'm so saturated with my teaching responsibilites.

I hope to kick it into high gear when the holiday season arrives.

Thanks, fos...

[kmoffat]

Thanks for the site. I'm still hoping for a miracle but it's nice to have this alternative. Your open source no ads attitude is much appreciated.

[jml]

I also want to thank you. In addition to Libranet being, in my opinion, one of the best OS's available, the Libranet Forum is an even more valuable asset. There are a lot of talented and generous people on it, who are very willing to give of their time and expertise. I personally have benefitted a lot from them. So as the future of both Libranet and the Official Libranet Forum become more and more uncertain, Its great to have this forum to build on. Again, thanks for caring.

Joe

[krp]

I would also like to express my thanks for you putting up this forum. I do hope that LN makes and makes it big. It has been, without doubt, the finest distro I have ever used.

More importantly the folks I have met(?) on the forum are really awesome and the possibility of losing that would be bad for all.

krp

[RedAlpha3]

I echo the feelings above. As a confirmed lurker I have found the Libranet Forum to be full of interesting discussion and generally polite people. It would be a great loss. I have learned much there.
If your intention is to reproduce such a forum then that, in itself, is a good aim. I wish you well with it

Pete

[julius]

I note that Tal has made a posting to the effect that the Libranet forum will not be closed.
Inevitably that means a shift of attention back to that forum in the interim.

But I'm glad I came here, as I noted the special section devoted to Mini ITX boards.
Yippee! Some time back (when we were having the debate about a multimedia section in the LN forum) I got the bits together for a Personal Video Recorder (there's so MANY acronyms for them nowadays PVR, DVR etc) - anyway PC with a hard disk and TV tuner to replace my aging VCR. It happens to be mini-ITX.

It didn't really like Libranet 3.0 much (chipset issue, I suspect), and I didn't pursue the matter - distracted by the ever growing mountain of other things to do! :roll:

However, its time that the project was moved on. I need to drag my notes out in the near future and post something in the ITX department.

more anon.

-J

[fos]

Hi Julius,

I really like the Mini-ITX format. Via has just come out with Nano-ITX as well.

It is not as popular here in the states as it is in europe. I hope Via continues to support it. I would also like to see more competition in that format from Intel and Amd. ITX mobos for Intel are much more expensive than Vias.

Thanks for posting,
Jeff

[julius]

Hi Jeff,

They are a really cool motherboard - seems a shame to put them in a case, but necessary in the ordinary situation where a DVD-ROM and hard drive have to be installed.

Mini-ITX have great potential for people who want to tinker with robots - all sorts of ideas abound. Time and loot are the only constraints! What happened to the 40-hour day, I wonder?

- J

[fos]

I hope to get a Nano board by next summer when I will have a little time to play with it.

I like to fool around with robotics. The nano board should be perfect.

I have a closet full of Microchip stuff. I just rearely have time to play with it. I'm thinking about grad school. If I can get enough scholarship and grant money to make it work, it would be like playing all the time.

Jeff

[julius]

Well, nearly 5 months on ... and I'm still running Libranet on my main desktop machine. Getting nervous, of course, as LN3 doesn't handle some of the new stuff too well - especially some of the Java apps that I run into all the time.

It's been a really frustrating time. I've been keeping an eye on the Libranet forum (hoping against hope ...) as it was the BEST distro that I had used.

As for the mini-ITX machine that I wanted to use for a PVR - well it's totally worn out from all the distro's I've tried on it. I was hoping to get the thing built and operational as well as find a new desktop distro that I liked in the process ... sigh.

Back to Mandrake er Mandriva, tried Fedora. Spent a lot of time trying two versions of Ubuntu (I've gotten used to Debian) but although I managed to cross many hurdles, the thing that let me down in the end was how Ubuntu tries to block access to the root user. There were "fixes" for that on the website, but that path just led to more hair loss and major hassles with MySQL which couldn't work out whether root or the sudo bloke was really in control.

Anyway. The search continues. But this seemed to be a good time to spend 5 mins working out which password I had set for this site. Also a good opportunity to say thanks yet again, Jeff, for setting up this haven of stored knowledge about Libranet just in case Tal turns the switch off. Your effort is appreciated.

- J.

[fos]

Thanks Julius,

I have had this server space for a couple of years. I have a couple of things set up for two small businesses. I have a lot of unused bandwidth and storage space. It is a way to give something back to the community.

Jeff

PS. The recent linux kernels seem to support the mini-itx format and Via in general much better than they did just six months ago. Keep looking!

[Mike]

Of course the reason I see things differently is a career spend in designing software -- and of course that includes convincing management of the practicality of some project, the need for some project, the "cost" estimate for some project, etc. Which is why I don't come to the "free software" isssue from the ideological direction but more from practical concerns.

We SHOULD have first defined the vision -- what would the hypothetical Libranet 4.0 need to be. Then proceeded to an estimate of what doing the work would entail -- what skill sets, how many person hours accroding to that set, etc.

Then, with that defined, we should have sought volunteers. Could we interest enough people with the necessary skills (or willing to acquire them) to make the project possible IF we could get Tal to agree. In other words, an approach to Tal with a realistic proposal "we CAN keep Libranet going if you allow it to be "free software" rather than an ideological opposition to proprietary software.

[bluesdog]

...IF we could get Tal to agree. In other words, an approach to Tal with a realistic proposal...From Tal's underwhelming response to repeated emails from various people, I suspect he is simply not interested/too busy/insert reason here.

I doubt any proposal, short of one involving a massive cash offer, would have made the slightest difference.

:(

[Mike]

Bluesdog, when you say "I doubt any proposal, short of one involving a massive cash offer, would have made the slightest difference" it indicates a probable mistaking of the situation caused by a failure to estimate.

In the total existence of the Libranet distro, how many copies do you think they sold? At what average price? (early versions were ~$30). What total does that come to? Now divide by your estimate of hours of work involved. Compare with what you know we programmer/anaysts get per hour.

On that basis, could they POSSIBLY have been doing this as a serious money making venture? I always assumed that "Libra Systems" (Jon) was supporting itself (and the Libranet project) by doing OTHER (paid) systems work becuase it couldn't possibly have been doing so from sales of Libranet.

Understand? The "worth" in a commercial sense of a project like Libranet in terms of the income it could produce is the net you get after subtracting from the income (sales) what would be a normal amount for the hours required. MY estimate for that is a NEGATIVE value. That doesn't preclude the potential of "making a living from" a software project by selling support -- a business will usually want to BUY support because for business, having one of their own people do the work instead is NOT free of cost (usually would be a higher cost because of lack of expertise). But THAT oportunity exists with "free" software also. Libranet could only ever have made money (on the side) for its developers if it had made inroads into the small business user community. To have made money from sales to individual users (to be worth a lot of cash as you seem to think) would have required sales about an order of magnitude higher than they were.

[bluesdog]

Mike, you're probably right.

I confess to feeling a bit, shall we say, pessimistic about Libranet's future, and even a bit miffed at Tal's lack of response, despite realizing there's probably some legitimate reason(s).

All the same, I think cash has had a lot to do with the success and popularity of Ubuntu, and it was in this sense I was considering what a similar capital investment could have done for Libranet.

However, to paraphrase Bones: 'Dammit Jim, I'm a philosopher, not an accountant!'

:)

[jpaulb]

All the same, I think cash has had a lot to do with the success and popularity of Ubuntu, and it was in this sense I was considering what a similar capital investment could have done for Libranet.


:)


I think that is only partly correct. The founder of Ubuntu has bags of money,
made from the sale of a very successful business. He is using both his
competence as a businessman and this wealth to drive Ubuntu. If management is
not competent or reliable, no amount of funding is going to make it a success it
may at best keep it afloat until the funding runs out.

[bluesdog]

Yes.
To quote myself: "I think cash has had a lot to do with the success, etc."
Previously, I mentioned a proposal which included a cash offer.
In neither instance did I claim money alone was the sole factor, merely that it was not an insignificant one.
Tal's recent posts on another forum suggest he has, or has had, a similar thought or two.
Now that the lines of communication are once again open, I think it's not too unreasonable to hope for a positive outcome, and I'm a tiny bit more optimistic...
:wink: