Microsoft's fonts...

[AndreL]

I was asking fos if he could use the Bitstream Vera series as the default fonts for vBulletin instead of the Microsoft font (Verdana). They were specifically designed to look good in Linux, they are free, and they also look good on Windows boxes.

As for me, I would suggest to remove all Microsoft's fonts from the bulletin:
All Arial, Comic Sans MS, Courier New, fixedsys, Garamond (not sure if it is MS), Georgia, Impact, Microsoft Sans Serif, System, Tahoma, Times New Roman, Trebuchet MS and Verdana the default vBulletin font.

But I am an OSS purist... :smiley4:

What do you think?

[RedAlpha3]

I think it makes sense to use a font that looks good to the "OSS Purist" and the Windows-caged lurker alike. The Bitstream Vera font seems fit for the role. Having tried lots of distributions, some with, some without the MS Fonts, there is nothing so off-putting as a difficult to read article on a web page.

[fos]

I added "bitstream vera sans oblique" as the first selection to every font category.

Did it make any difference? (Maybe it is my browser set up but the font looks fine from this end.)

fos....

[AndreL]

I added "bitstream vera sans oblique" as the first selection to every font category.

Did it make any difference? (Maybe it is my browser set up but the font looks fine from this end.)

fos....I do not see it in the font selection window...

[AndreL]

I think it makes sense to use a font that looks good to the "OSS Purist" and the Windows-caged lurker alike. The Bitstream Vera font seems fit for the role. Having tried lots of distributions, some with, some without the MS Fonts, there is nothing so off-putting as a difficult to read article on a web page.I can't say that the MS fonts do not look great: they do. They had been specifically designed to look good on CRT screens. Georgia, Verdana and the latest Tahoma always where my favorites. And, once in a while, Comic Sans MS. I also used them in Linux, at the beginning because they looked better than any Linux supplied fonts. But since someone developed the Biststream Vera serie I threw all the MS fonts from my Linux box. ( X as become better also through the years). Now I use them as the main fonts on my Windows box but I left the MS fonts for compatibility with Word's docs that others have made and that I work on (or vice-versa). Stuff that I will give away at work or elsewhere (print) I use OoO and the Bitstream Vera serie or other free truetype fonts.

The thing is that I don't see why I should use anything from a Monopoly if I don't absolutely need it... and if there is a GNU equivalent. As supporters of GNU, Linux, Free and open source OS, OSS and the like I don't think that we absolutely need the MS fonts in vBulletin.

.

[Red*Fox]

lol yall hate microsoft fonts so much u wanto delete them completely ;P. the fonts look fine to me, dont see why u would change it., the fonts might need to be installed client-side for windows/linux to recgonizse it or itll use the default font ....im not sure i dont do web hosting.

[bluesdog]

Just set yer browser font to whatever you like!

Personally, I'm torn between ghostmeat and pastor of muppets.....

:)

[AndreL]

lol yall hate microsoft fonts so much u wanto delete them completely ;P. the fonts look fine to me, dont see why u would change it.I didn't write that I hate them... I wrote that I do not think that we need them. The Bitstream Vera serie looks fine also. There is also the Freetype serie but I don't think that they look as good.

There is no hate or war implied in the subject: I love Lunux, I love GNU, I love OSS, OoO, KDE, Gnome, Richard Stalman, etc. etc. and I don't hate Microsoft...

The real question is: Do we need the Microsoft's fonts for this forum?

If we want GNU and OSS to move we have to make choices. I just suggest one.

[AndreL]

Just set yer browser font to whatever you like!

Personally, I'm torn between ghostmeat and pastor of muppets.....

:)Yes I could just do that but it is not the point. :smiley2:

[AndreL]

If anyone wants to look at them:

Bitstream Vera
Bitstream Vera has be released for use under an open source license agreement announced with the GNOME Foundation, giving advanced font capabilities to all free and open source software developers and users.http://www.bitstream.com/font_rendering/products/dev_fonts/vera.html
.

[fos]

Any feedback on the font issue? Did the changes I made to the CSS files make any difference? I assume you must have the bitstream vera fonts installed on your local computer for it to have any effect.

If no effect was noticed, I need clarification so I can take it to the vBulletin support forum.

fos.....

[AndreL]

Yes, I see the oblique but, strangely enough, only in firefox-Windows... not in Linux (I have Bitstream Vera fonts on both).

Contrarily to my belief, even with CSS, the fonts have to be on the client side or else, a substitute font will be used.


Your code reads:font: 10pt bitstream vera sans oblique, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;So, those who don't have the Bitstream fonts will see Verdana. It's okay to leave the MS fonts as substitute for those who do not have the Bitstream fonts, I guess. (Windows will default to them anyway.)

I beleive that you've used the oblique so the change would be more apparent... I wouldn't choose that as default, tho, since oblique fonts are more tire-ing (???) . It's okay to leave the MS fonts as substitute. [I]Oblique could be use in the "quotes" but, since they are framed, it is not really necessary.



The thing that I was aiming at, mostly, was the editor's choice of fonts. This is set in the "EDITOR SCRIPTS" section:var fontoptions = new Array("Arial", "Arial Black", "Arial Narrow", "Book Antiqua", "Century Gothic", "Comic Sans MS", "Courier New", "Fixedsys", "Franklin Gothic Medium", "Garamond", "Georgia", "Impact", "Lucida Console", "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Microsoft Sans Serif", "Palatino Linotype", "System", "Tahoma", "Times New Roman", "Trebuchet MS", "Verdana");
The Bitstream Vera serie would be enough, I believe, since most users do not "play" so much with the wysywig option anyway. You could leave Comic Sans MS (I wouldn't) until we find a nice and free substitute. Those who do not have the fonts on their computer would get verdana as it is the substitute for bitstream vera sans and, probably, times new roman :smiley11: as a substitute for bitstream vera serif. Yet, I don't remember if Libranet (or other Linux distros) install the MS fonts. If not, they'll get a substitute font among those that they have on their computer (propably the freetype serie...).

Actualy, I do not have the lucida console nor the lucida sans unicode on any of my computers so what I have been seeing were substituted fonts. That is why I noticed a difference between the F-Windows and the F-Linux displays...

Hey, but that is just my point of view... I figure that if we want to promote GNU and OSS, we shouldn't use MS fonts as the default display and for the editor (mostly). They need to be there as substitute, tho. I am sure that if there was a free and open-source equivalent to vBulletin you would have gladly use it, as it was discussed in another thread.

For those who are interested, there is a .deb package in Sarge for the Bitstream Vera (ttf-bitstream-vera)The Bitstream Vera family of free TrueType fonts
This is a set of high-quality TrueType fonts created by Bitstream, Inc.
and released under a DFSG-free license. They are intended to remedy the
lack of free high-quality fonts for the free desktop environments.

They fully cover Western European languages (ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-15) and
Turkish (ISO-8859-9). They also include a selection of mathematical and
other symbols and some limited support for Eastern European languages
(parts of ISO-8859-2). Non-latin scripts are not supported.There is also : ttf-dejavuBitstream Vera fonts with additional characters
These fonts are based on the famous Bitstream Vera font family adding better
support for non-English languages. They currently cover the entire Latin
Ext-A range and parts of Latin Ext-B, Cyrillic, Greek and other ranges.

They are designed for use on low-resolution devices (mainly computer
screens) but can be used in printing as well. .

[fos]

You are right, I did select the oblique font as the first setting to make the change obvious. I did install vera on my personal box, but the change doesn't show up here either. Strange

I will change the obliqe to a more pleasing setting for right now.

I'll have to keep working on the options.

fos....

PS. Changed to bitstream vera serif. It worked in my browser: Linux Firefox 1.5.05

[AndreL]

:smiley10: Ain't that a beautiful (FREE) font!?!!!? :smiley10:

[Lavene]

Slightly off topic maybe but I have a question. What happen if I send a document (.doc) where I have used one of the free fonts to a MS Office user who only have the MS fonts? Will that person be able to read my document?

Just to be sure I have installed the windows fonts and usually use 'times new roman'.

Tina

[AndreL]

Yes. It will not look exactly as the original, tho. Windows usually replaces sans serif fonts with Arial and serif with Times New Roman which is not so ugly per se but we see it in about 90% of the newspapers (or Times Roman)... but it will be quite readable since those MS fonts are quite good anyway.

I don't know about OpenOffice (which, I guess, you use) but in MSWord (if you need to use this one) there is an option to save the fonts with the text. It makes a bigger file (37k to 144k on one of my doc) but it will look exactly like yours. Problems may arise, tho, if the recipient wants to work on it: it will use her/his default fonts (or a substitute).

There is always the option, if you often exchange docs, to send a set of fonts to that person if she/he is not to scared to install something new... :smiley3: :smiley13: :confused:

Remember your CDs gifts?
.

[sammil]

Bluesdog,

O ye of little faith... Master of puffets.

[fos]

Microsoft Word isn't even compatible with itself accross versions. We use some older Word documents at school. The font on the the 2003 version of Word mangles spacing splitting words in strange places. The problem is, you can only see the problem after you print, it displays fine on the screen.

fos....